Amy! Pleasure to meet another PharmD on the right side of history! Sleep is critically important for both physical and mental aspects. Totally agree and should be prioritized!
As a parent of two post-teens, later school start times means waking up later. Yes. True. It also means going to bed later for most teens. Early or late school start times are meaningless. It's the amount of sleep, not the time one gets up. Unless PARENTS enforce a bed time, nothing schools do will make one bit of difference.
It sounds like you missed the part of the article that emphasized the natural changes in adolescent circadian rhythms, which result in them not being sleepy until around 11pm. "Enforcing bedtime" for teens won't make them fall asleep any earlier. They'll just lay there, mind churning, anxiety increasing, tossing and turning, further eroding both their mental and physical health.
No, I did not miss that. My point is that unless parents enforce a bed time, nothing schools do will make a difference. Pretty simple point - focusing on only one end will do nothing unless parents enforce the other end.
I can also say, with only personal knowledge, that a child's circadian rhythm is an individual thing - and again, more dependent on parents than schools.
Repeating your original point doesn't advance your argument. I still disagree that "enforcing" bedtime is helpful. A better approach (and as the article also suggests) is to help teens create an environment conducive to sleep. And the best way to do that is to have a conversation with them so they understand the importance, thus increasing their willingness, to do so.
Not clear to me what your point is. IF it is now to take issue with my use of the term "enforce" rather than "help teens create an environment conducive to sleep" ... I give up. Potayto, Potahto.
Yes, the word "enforce" is what I'm taking issue with, because it conjures a (counterproductive) authoritarian approach, rather than a collaborative approach. If that's not what you were advocating, then it seems we're in agreement.
If we’d also put an end to DST (Daylight Saving Time), we’d all be a lot better off— neuroscience has shown that, and traffic studies (including teen accident reports) have shown that — but our senators have taken us in the wrong direction, especially those in the sunny states like mine. I send them data often, and I hope you will add ending DST to the MAHA sleep health list.
I along with countless other kids in my farming community were very early risers having to do chores before and after going to school all day. The vast percentage of the children where also in sports. After a day of work, school, sports and homework we all slept very well. The aforementioned group had a higher successful life. The other group that was the opposite were the less successful in school and life.
My kids are now 46 & 39. When they were teens they were both very different people, still are. One procrastinated, was driven when it came to grades, played soccer and couldn’t seem to settle down to get to sleep until after 11. Still she did what she needed to do. My other daughter was and is a natural athlete, did the minimal amount of work to get through school, and it seemed to come easy to her. Fell asleep easier and was more the “screen” kid. They both had the idea they could “catch up” on their sleep on most weekends. I personally never believed in that. The “driven” one is still working overtime, and not getting enough sleep. Her mind won’t shut down at night. The other gets plenty of sleep, exercises regularly, and still enjoys her screen time. Both are successful young women. Not much changed.
Im 65. When I was in high school I was responsible for making sure I set my alarm to get up to go to school. Why is the parent doing that? My daughter who is 28 set her alarm and got herself out of bed for school in the mornings. I drove her to school. Her school didn't provide any transportation.
Amy! Pleasure to meet another PharmD on the right side of history! Sleep is critically important for both physical and mental aspects. Totally agree and should be prioritized!
You may appreciate my piece here on ADHD and how that changed my view of the profession. These are hard core medications and should not be prescribed, especially to children: https://unorthodoxy.substack.com/p/adhd-and-me-how-the-narrative-broke
As a parent of two post-teens, later school start times means waking up later. Yes. True. It also means going to bed later for most teens. Early or late school start times are meaningless. It's the amount of sleep, not the time one gets up. Unless PARENTS enforce a bed time, nothing schools do will make one bit of difference.
It sounds like you missed the part of the article that emphasized the natural changes in adolescent circadian rhythms, which result in them not being sleepy until around 11pm. "Enforcing bedtime" for teens won't make them fall asleep any earlier. They'll just lay there, mind churning, anxiety increasing, tossing and turning, further eroding both their mental and physical health.
Further point, I am not disagreeing with the premise of the article. I agree schools should not start before 8AM.
I am saying it is incomplete and can be pushing a string unless parents enforce a bedtime.
No, I did not miss that. My point is that unless parents enforce a bed time, nothing schools do will make a difference. Pretty simple point - focusing on only one end will do nothing unless parents enforce the other end.
I can also say, with only personal knowledge, that a child's circadian rhythm is an individual thing - and again, more dependent on parents than schools.
Repeating your original point doesn't advance your argument. I still disagree that "enforcing" bedtime is helpful. A better approach (and as the article also suggests) is to help teens create an environment conducive to sleep. And the best way to do that is to have a conversation with them so they understand the importance, thus increasing their willingness, to do so.
Not clear to me what your point is. IF it is now to take issue with my use of the term "enforce" rather than "help teens create an environment conducive to sleep" ... I give up. Potayto, Potahto.
Yes, the word "enforce" is what I'm taking issue with, because it conjures a (counterproductive) authoritarian approach, rather than a collaborative approach. If that's not what you were advocating, then it seems we're in agreement.
If we’d also put an end to DST (Daylight Saving Time), we’d all be a lot better off— neuroscience has shown that, and traffic studies (including teen accident reports) have shown that — but our senators have taken us in the wrong direction, especially those in the sunny states like mine. I send them data often, and I hope you will add ending DST to the MAHA sleep health list.
I disagree with with this persons idea.
I along with countless other kids in my farming community were very early risers having to do chores before and after going to school all day. The vast percentage of the children where also in sports. After a day of work, school, sports and homework we all slept very well. The aforementioned group had a higher successful life. The other group that was the opposite were the less successful in school and life.
But did you go to bed earlier to compensate for the earlier rising time?
We run a farm & are in bed typically 9 hours before we are to rise. We also get a great deal of exercise, so our bodies are ready to rest.
My kids are now 46 & 39. When they were teens they were both very different people, still are. One procrastinated, was driven when it came to grades, played soccer and couldn’t seem to settle down to get to sleep until after 11. Still she did what she needed to do. My other daughter was and is a natural athlete, did the minimal amount of work to get through school, and it seemed to come easy to her. Fell asleep easier and was more the “screen” kid. They both had the idea they could “catch up” on their sleep on most weekends. I personally never believed in that. The “driven” one is still working overtime, and not getting enough sleep. Her mind won’t shut down at night. The other gets plenty of sleep, exercises regularly, and still enjoys her screen time. Both are successful young women. Not much changed.
Im 65. When I was in high school I was responsible for making sure I set my alarm to get up to go to school. Why is the parent doing that? My daughter who is 28 set her alarm and got herself out of bed for school in the mornings. I drove her to school. Her school didn't provide any transportation.
I think you missed the point.
I know someone that has been taking prescribed amphetamines for a full 20 years since he was 14.