Fact is that some people become ill after drinking raw milk and end up in the hospital. There are reasons for pasturization. It doesn't change that fact if have been drinking it all your life with no problems.
Fact is that many people don't become ill after drinking raw milk and don't end up in the hospital. Because of pasteurization, we have weakened our immune systems over the course of many years and with all the other chemicals running around in our body from the food supply, eating/drinking clean is the best way if you can.. It depends on the person, but it is a valid option.
"Because of pasteurization, we have weakened our immune systems over the course of many years" is complete nonsense. You want to drink raw milk - have fun - but don't claim black is white.
Because of pasteurization our immune systems have been improved and people are living longer. The fact is thousands of children that have lives today and became adults because of pastorization.
C. A. Ryan et al., JAMA. Vol. 258 No. 22, December 11, 1987 Centers for Disease Control, Atlanta, GA 30333.
Two waves of antimicrobial-resistant Salmonella typhimurium infections in Illinois totaling over 16 000 culture-confirmed cases were traced to two brands of pasteurized 2% milk produced by a single dairy plant. Salmonellosis was associated with taking antimicrobials before onset of illness. Two surveys to determine the number of persons who were actually affected yielded estimates of 168,791 and 197,581 persons, making this the largest outbreak of salmonellosis ever identified in the United States. The epidemic strain was easily identified because it had a rare antimicrobial resistance pattern and a highly unusual plasmid profile; study of stored isolates showed it had caused clusters of salmonellosis during the previous ten months that may have been related to the same plant, suggesting that the strain had persisted in the plant and repeatedly contaminated milk after pasteurization.
Raw dairy products have been the most common cause of foodborne illness outbreaks in the US, by far, almost every year, for decades -period. You can consider your supplier(s) and your own health, and decide to accept the relatively low risks for yourself, but you've cherry picked a couple of old studies to show what? I can pull review articles and outbreak reports all day long, like these few. How many more large outbreak reports would you like?
This was almost 40 years ago. Estimates are not facts. The dairy plant carried the bacteria. And transferred to the product. It could have been green peppers or lettuce. It had nothing to do with being pasteurized.
“Conservative estimates of the effect of pasteurizing all fluid milk at 82 C rather than 72 C are that annual listeriosis deaths from consumption of this milk would increase from 18 to 670, a 38-fold increase”
(page 703) “These changes to the potential for outgrowth have been calculated to increase the risk of death from listeriosis due to consumption of pasteurized fluid milk by approximately 40-fold. Such an increase would have an appreciable public health impact if all milk in the United States were processed according to the increased pasteurization temperature based on the fact that milk is estimated to be responsible for approximately 18 listeriosis deaths per year in the United States."
Bacteria can grow faster in pasteurized milk because heat treatment disables the inhibitor properties of fresh milk. Textbook reference: “Pasteurization affects the growth rate of
You plucked half a sentence, with the word CAN - from within an entire chapter refuting your argument - as in, is a rare possibility when the process fails. Please stop, orgone - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgone
You have to know your farmer and your cow or goat. Anonymity produces a lack of accountability not the fact that the milk is raw, per se. The same is true of raw greens shipped over distance, and why we are shitting our pants because we can’t cope with thanking a farmer or sauteeing dandelion greens. I noticed you are not suggesting lettuce only be sold in sautéed form.
Outbreak of Listeria monocytogenes Infections Associated with Pasteurized Milk from a Local Dairy – Massachusetts, 2007
From CDC's MMWR:
On November 27, 2007, a local health officer in central Massachusetts contacted the Massachusetts Department of Public Health (MDPH) to report listeriosis in a man aged 87 years. Pulsed-field gel electrophoresis (PFGE) performed on the patient's Listeria monocytogenes isolate produced a pattern indistinguishable from that of isolates from three other cases identified in residents of central Massachusetts in June, October, and early November 2007. MDPH, in collaboration with local public health officials, conducted an investigation, which implicated pasteurized, flavored and nonflavored, fluid milk produced by a local dairy (dairy A) as the source of the outbreak. This report summarizes the results of that investigation. In all, five cases were identified, and three deaths occurred. This outbreak illustrates the potential for contamination of fluid milk products after pasteurization and the difficulty in detecting outbreaks of L. monocytogenes infections.
That is exactly what is despicable to me. Finding excuses to say that others will not get sick from raw milk because you do not get sick from drinking it. I could care less about some report about pasturized milk from 19 years ago - it is a selfish argument to try and get eyes off raw milk and those who do get ill from it.
For a fact, a guarantee of perfect safety is an impossible standard for any food to achieve. Yet opponents to raw milk access will often imply that pasteurization ensures safety. But the record shows otherwise. To give one example: Outbreak of Listeria monocytogenes Infections Associated with Pasteurized Milk from a Local Dairy in Massachusetts, 2007 published in JAMA. More pasteurized milk outbreak cases are documented on the Raw Milk Institute website.
Here are the simple facts: some people can drink raw milk and not get sick and some people who drink raw milk and get very sick and end up in the hospital. And if it is a pregnant woman she can lose her child. I wish people would start thinking about others. The fact that they've been drinking raw milk all their lives and they're just fine so that would equal everybody else could drink raw milk and just be fine??? that is not true and I'm asking that people start thinking outside of themselves. I am a degree nutritionist and been studying milk for 35 years including food safety/bacteriology.
In our big cities, people living on the streets are given needles and NarCan to "help them".
The reality is that consuming raw milk is INCREDIBLY safe, and is a choice that people should be allowed to make -- especially given we're handing out needles to addicts to kill themselves. On the other hand, our conventional food system has caused countless both slow... and fast death in consumers. And here are the facts from government data (2011): https://www.realmilk.com/government-data-proves-raw-milk-safe/
Show me where I said drinking ANYthing is safe for everyone. Drinking pasteurized milk has made countless people lactose intolerant over the decades. That makes it pretty unsafe.
Also, why not focus on where you can make the most impact? I assure you, in terms of loss of human life... raw milk isn't where you need to focus your efforts.
All foods can be ‘unsafe’ if poorly prepared. Humans have been hunting, fishing, planting, growing, harvesting, gathering, etc, etc since we were first a species. When we know where our food is coming from AND are reasonably assured that it’s safe to eat, then raw milk & all the other ferments, homemade concoctions and incentives that humans have e always prepared are fine. We live, we adapt, we thrive. If you are reasonably sure a food feels safe to consume & can provide meaningful nutrition, then go for it! 🖖
Absolutely! Also, sauerkraut juice and ACV have been shown to remove glyphosate from the body. Wonder why the trolls in the comments don't worry about all the roundup found in people's bodies -- including those who eat meticulously to avoid it.
Most kids with early food allergies get over them by 4-5 years of age, as I did. Cow's milk was one, but goat's milk was fine. Oranges and bananas also gave me diarrhea. Strawberries were anothet thing I couldn't eat.
Goats milk is the closest to mothers milk on offer. Whether your allergies were from the fruits you mention or what was sprayed on them would be a useful approach, as would evaluation of gut health. Simple solution for many is re-inoculating gut with so called friendly bacteria. Kefir, fermented veggies, natto
all excellent dietary sources. Make sauerkraut in fermentation crock, yeild about 25#'s in 3-4 weeks...
Sheep's milk, too. I remember going to the goat farm and chasing the goats. Mom was scared a goat would butt me. I wasn't. I got over my allergies by 5. They were typical early childhood food allergies. I turned 5 in 1963.
Good friend retired and purchased retirement villa. He created a one acre fenced pasture for some sheep. His ram did butt him when he foolishly turned his back. His two little dogs drove the ram away saving him. About a year ago... Now is focusing on fruit orchard with 50 trees...
Everyone is unique. Dairy and grains are two 'good' foods that have created health problems for many who enjoy them.. When they have been removed from people's diets many health problems cease. In 1976, I went to a nutritional doctor who told me that I needed to eat lots of dairy, because i was pregnant and expecting to nurse. In three months I had a rapidly growing tumor and was told by two doctors that they would give me no guarantees, unless I had it surgically removed. A miracle happened, I said a prayer and a book came into my hands by Dr. Norman W. Walker (author of 10 books on health and nutrition). I followed the information in his book and stopped the dairy. i only ate raw fruit and vegetables and in less than three months, the tumor was gone. I learned excess protein-fat in the dairy caused the tumor to grow. Nothing grows without a fuel; and when I removed the fuel...the tumor deteriorated and was gone.
Suckling another species is a rather bizarre human behavior...
Grains typically means dessicated with Glyphosate hence the "gluten" avoidance
renaissance. The real culprit is most commonly the Glyphosate.
It is true that wheat has been hybridized to increase # yield per acre
that was accomplished by selecting for high gluten content.
Allergies to gluten is rare but severe.
As you point out animal milks are designed to transform a 60# calf and turn it into a 1000# heifer in one year. Last I checked human babies put on ~ 20#'s that first year requiring a very very differnt nutrient profile provided by human mothers milk...
The body wants to heal itself. Unfortunately Medical Doctors by training are bereft of
such knowledge but worse, they want to inject every muscle with a countless # of Quacines... Dr. Walker was pure genius, one of many...
Think about this...mankind lived for thousands of years without the ability to process any food. Grains need to be processed in order to be eaten. Any food that can't be eaten raw was not designed for human consumption. Dangerous Grains by James Braly, M.D. and Ron Hoggan, MA. stated that 200 diseases from arthritis to schizophrenia are caused by eating grains. In 1986, I developed arthritis from eating bread daily. A neighbor who worked at the bakery started bringing me bread. It did not take many months, before I woke up one morning and could not lift my arms above my shoulders and i had excruciating pain in my elbows, too. The only food I had added was bread, so I stopped it. I don't take medication or pain pills.. It took 2-1/2 weeks, before I had no more pain in my elbows and could freely lift my arms up without pain. Several months later, I experimented and added the bread back. It did not take very long before the horrible pain and the constriction in my arms occurred again. After this second time I did not go back to eating bread again.
Pretty sure it was the grains?? Or more likely the glyphosate used to dessicate the grains? Have studied thousands of people with arthritis (degenerative joint dis-ease) Have not seen a direct correlation from grain. Have seen huge issues with those who consume animal foods that is turn often are "fattened" by round up ready and dessicated grains... Celiac dis-ease is true allergy to gluten, it is rare.
There are a number of books on this subject: Grain Brain: David Perlmutter, M.D. Wheat Belly.: William David M.D. Grain Damage: Doug Graham, D.C., Going Against the Grains, Mellissa Diane Smith; Against the Grains: Richard Manning. The Plant Paradox: Stephen Gundry, M.D.
Very much aware, know one of them well... Gundry is a total fraudster babbles about "lectin" gremlins when beans have fueled the population centers of the world. You pretty sure it was the grains and not the Glyphosate??? Norman Walker was way out in front...
Congratulations! It's wonderful that you took charge of your health and recovered. Everyone is indeed unique and not every diet fits all. However, keep in mind that diary is usually a processed food, unless you are using raw milk. Even butter is processed. My thought is the more unprocessed food the better, and stay away from ultra-processed food. It's poison.
Milk is not a processed food. Butter is churned. That is a mechanical action.
Please do not spread misinformation about milk. I am an expert. I have a 5 year degree in Food & Nutrition that included food safety and have been studying milk for 35 years. I spent time on a farm as a child and they milked their own cows. But they boiled it for me and other children. Some people can drink raw milk, and some end up in the hospital. Some pregnant women up losing their babies. The rules are there to make sure that people do not lose their lives or suffer. Those are the facts. It would help if people would think of others.
Lets unpack a few of these ideas.. The human body is self regulating, to a large extent, self healing. The solutions are often simple, compliance rare.
People are very similar, their conditions highly variable. Sucking another species is quite a bizarre behavior despite it normalization. Toxins, whatever their origins are to be avoided. The more "processing" that takes place the more nutritional degradation occurs. Humans require a healthy "biome"to digest whatever they consume.
As you point out many "foods" are actually poisons...
Humans consume their dis-eases then typically report to MD's for treatments.
They test for dis-ease until they find abnormalities to treat.
The cause of health is actually simple... adhering to the tenets? not so much
Thanks for your comment. I agree the less processed the healthier one would be. I try to eat as much raw fruit as possible; steamed spinach; organic eggs from our own chickens. If I can find it, an ounce of raw goat cheese...there are 8 grams of protein in one ounce...and i try to keep my protein down. Excess protein causes health problems, like tumors, heart disease, constipation, obesity. Every food contains some protein...and it all adds up. I try to stay under 30 grams daily. .It isn't easy keeping the protein down. The Protein Myth urging people to eat more protein started in the 1960s. People did not have weight problems like they have today. I read glowing information in Adele Davis's books promoting high protein and went along. with it...and gained a lot of weight. It was not many years later that Adele David died from cancer.. I did not gain from sugar or grains...I gave them up in 1961.
No, it is not true that every food contains protein. I feel bad for you that your life has been inundated with false information about protein, that would be very confusing for you. Adele Davis confused many people.
The amount of protein that you need is unique to you but generally as you get older you need more high quality protein like boiled chicken that you can put in the salads or make into sandwiches, eggs, fish, lean beef, and beef in stew with lots of vegetables. Red kidney beans, provolone cheese, cottage cheese, lentil soup, walnuts, almonds, and whole milk Greek yogurt that you can add to make a smoothie with some fruit. You can have good quality and substantial quantity of good proteins and not be over the calories that you need for fuel and body maintenance (making blood) everyday. I think that's what is maybe confusing for you about protein. I would not say eat fried chicken or masses of barbecue ribs. That's the difference. I hope that helps, I am a degreed nutritionist.
Debbie, I studied the Hunzacuts who lived their full component of 120 years...and they primarily ate garden fresh food and a limited amount of meat on feast days , which could be every 4 or 5 months. The Hunzacuts lived in North Eastern Pakistan in the Himalayas; and were known for their healthy longevity, before the Chinese invaded their country. John Robbin's Healthy at 100 has a chapter about them. Jay M. Hoffman, PhD. visited the Hunzacuts back in the 1960s and wrote an entire book on Hunza. He also wrote about them in The Missing Link in the Medical Curriculum: Food Chemistry in relationship to Body Chemistry. Then there is Dr. Norman Walker who wrote ten books on nutrition and health. He was a living example. He lived well over 100 and was out doing his daily 5 mile walk on a country road, when he was hit by a car and died three months later. I have reasons to believe he was 118 years old. I met people who knew him for years. One was a lady who owned a health food store in Long Beach California in 1934. He wanted to put his Norwalk Juicer in her store. She said that he looked around 70 at the time. Dr. Walker died in 1985...51 years later. I met this lady in 1982, when she was in her eighties. I also met one of his disciples in 1980 who was 50...and he had become a total vegetarian, when he was 15. He looked no more than 30...and at 92 was out biking around the town he lived in. We kept in touch and I spoke to him on the phone a couple years ago. I went over 50 years without meat.. I am now 92 and have no health problems. I am up at 5 AM and out the door at 6:30 AM doing a 90 minute non stop walk covering 4-1/2 miles daily. My energy is better today than when I was in my thirties eating the standard American Diet. I was fat and lethargic. Today, I primarily eat fruit, vegetables and our own organic eggs. I don't touch dairy, grains, nuts or seeds. My daughter wanted me to eat meat. So, I ate some grass-grazed bison for awhile. However, it is very difficult to keep the protein and fat down, when one eats meat. So, I stopped it. I have no physical problems and take no medication. When I was in my teens and during my married life, I weighed 150 pounds. Today, I weigh 105 pounds. The Food Industry financially supports nutrition schools. It provides its food research to the schools...in order to promote its products. I learned this information in 1979, when I needed some credits and was going to take some nutrition courses. I had been into nutrition research for 21 years and took a test to become a nutritional consultant from a university.. I passed with an A+...but put a note at the bottom of the test. " I gave you the answers you required, but they are not necessarily valid." The Food Industry has contributed... in lowering the health of Americans. I did Creator-guided nutritional consultations for 30 years...1982- 2012. I never had a problem where someone told me my advice hurt them. I asked for feedback. Many people told me that only eating their perfect foods was difficult, Many said the same thing, " I would like more variety," However, we are a species just like any other species with a limited number of foods, which are really right for our bodies. Variety may be the spice of life, but the wrong food leads to health issues,
Have studied devoted Fruitarians for several decades. Coastal Australia is the best location on earth for them to thrive. Knew a young woman thriving in HI.
She moved back to Scandanavia. Impossible there.
Too much protein is hardest on kidneys as they are burdened with deamination.
Breaking down nitrogenous wastes (ammonia groups)
Young athletes put on tremendous muscle mass with the strategy, however it also accelerates degenerative process'.
The human body is to some extent forgiving and self regulating. Ethical concerns
are front row and center for dietary considerations.
For nearly all it is not the grains, its the glyphosate...
The 80-10-10 Diet book by Doug Graham, D.C. has a lot of good information. He is into a raw food fruitarian primarily. He also wrote Grain Damage... In regard to grains...any food that would have to be processed would not be a food designed for human consumption. For thousands of years mankind lived on food he could pluck and eat. It says in the Bible that when mankind was turned out of the Garden...now mankind was going to really have to work hard tilling the ground and women would suffer in labor. Grain equals Pain. I know that i really suffered excruciating pain back in 1986, when i started eating bread for awhile...A neighbor worked at a bakery and started bringing me bread. It got to a point, where I couldn't lift my arms and I had horrible pain in my joints. I don't take pain pills and it took 2-1/2 weeks after i stopped eating the bread for the pain to stop.
Know the exquisite details. As you point out much useful info.
Also know personal components. Again Barbara, how would you know whether its the grain (gluten) or the glyphosate? Not disputing the joint pain issue. Have seen zero evidence in decades of comprehensive analysis that
its grain. Back pain degeneration is the LARGEST slice of the health care dollar. That is exactly why the Medical Cartel targeted Chiros.
The list of maladies that does not cause low back pain is much shorter
than the list that does... You are advancing the ideal diet concept.
That is geographically dependent. Please re-read that statement.
Those living on the gold coast of Australia thrive on fruit available like no other location on Earth.
Not possible for those living in inclement climes...
I was so pleased to read this article and learn about Sally. I too have been drinking only raw milk and have found it soothing to my gut. Sadly, in NY you can only buy it from a dairy directly and due to the State regulations and restrictions no one, at least in Western NY Region, wants to deal with the State so they don't carry it or sell it. Sure, if lucky, you can find a local farmer who might sell or trade it but they are taking risks.
If Bobby Kennedy drinks it daily, why can't he just take away all restrictions of raw milk and let the people choose? I ask all to challenge the restrictions at Fed and State level so We the People can MAHA.
Have you ever visited someone in the hospital with an e-coli infection? They end up with damaged kidneys. And many just die in the hospital. It is an horrendous infection, with much suffering.
There is a difference between posting a comment and producing a research paper without pay as it costs me time. But, I encourage people to find the data and read up and study their questions, the internet can assist. You wil have other questions too. Find out about bacteriology and dairy.
In response to another comment that you for some reason deleted, you wrote: "Have you ever visited someone in the hospital with an e-coli infection? They end up with damaged kidneys. And many just die in the hospital. It is an horrendous infection, with much suffering."
Per the FDA: "E. coli are mostly harmless bacteria that live in the intestines of people and animals and contribute to intestinal health. However, eating or drinking food or water contaminated with certain types of E. coli can cause mild to severe gastrointestinal illness. Some types of pathogenic (illness-causing) E. coli, such as Shiga toxin-producing E. coli (STEC), can be life-threatening.
Some wildlife, livestock, and humans are occasional carriers of pathogenic E. coli and can contaminate meats and food crops. Contamination is typically spread when feces come into contact with food or water. Human carriers can spread infections when food handlers do not use proper hand washing hygiene after using the restroom."
Can you expand on the type of E. coli these hypothetical people died from in hospital, and how it links with small farms? Because the truth is, it's the large food producers who are the real issue. Larger farms means less quality control.
I found a couple of cases of "likely" linked to small dairy farms. But "likely" is not exactly scientific, is it?
And I encourage people to look anywhere but online, and to look for conflicts of interest in the studies (which we have all learned recently are oftentimes not reported by paid experts).
Most of all, I encourage everyone to remember that my body, my choice is an idea that all civilized societies should respect.
Here's what a simple browser search revealed: "There is no confirmed evidence that Joe Rogan specifically uses Chinese peptides, but he has publicly endorsed BPC-157, a popular peptide among wellness influencers. This peptide is often discussed in the context of unregulated substances that some people use for various health benefits." And if he wants to use something on his own body, it's his right.
The reason is very simple. Although the HHS is 80% by budget of the Fed Gubmint, other ABC agencies are very powerful. The industries that profit off your demise contribute vast amounts of $$$ to Congress. May want to reconsider suckling the cow for longevity...
The observations of Francis Pottenger, M.D. followed Price, experimenting on cats giving one group raw meat and raw milk to eat and another group cooked meat and pasteurized milk. The group eating cooked meat and pasteurized milk were physically smaller and by the third generation many were unable to reproduce. The observations of Dr. Price, had mostly to do with the human jaw, and dentition. Dentists falsely renounce the observations, with absurb proclammations about some essential vitamins...
Cats are obligate carnivores. Humans are not. We are best advised to eat a plant based diet for many reasons.
Strongest part of the PP argument is the observation the cats fed RAW milk and meat had much better health. Extrapolating this to humans is at best speculative.
No issue with crediting a persons life work, that has nothing to do with whether the original assumtions are correct.
The Amish have always used raw cows milk. They grow organic vegetable and... eat alot of meat.
They do in fact suffer from degenerative arthritis, heart dis-ease, and malignancy.
The pronoucements for the best diet include avoidance strategies hence the emphasis on
"real food". Avoiding processed junk foods is hardly a new consideration. Not sure a "movement" is useful except for bowels.
Fact is that some people become ill after drinking raw milk and end up in the hospital. There are reasons for pasturization. It doesn't change that fact if have been drinking it all your life with no problems.
Fact is that many people don't become ill after drinking raw milk and don't end up in the hospital. Because of pasteurization, we have weakened our immune systems over the course of many years and with all the other chemicals running around in our body from the food supply, eating/drinking clean is the best way if you can.. It depends on the person, but it is a valid option.
"Because of pasteurization, we have weakened our immune systems over the course of many years" is complete nonsense. You want to drink raw milk - have fun - but don't claim black is white.
Because of pasteurization our immune systems have been improved and people are living longer. The fact is thousands of children that have lives today and became adults because of pastorization.
No that is just not a scientific fact of any kind. Raw milk can carry bacteria, serious bacteria.
C. A. Ryan et al., JAMA. Vol. 258 No. 22, December 11, 1987 Centers for Disease Control, Atlanta, GA 30333.
Two waves of antimicrobial-resistant Salmonella typhimurium infections in Illinois totaling over 16 000 culture-confirmed cases were traced to two brands of pasteurized 2% milk produced by a single dairy plant. Salmonellosis was associated with taking antimicrobials before onset of illness. Two surveys to determine the number of persons who were actually affected yielded estimates of 168,791 and 197,581 persons, making this the largest outbreak of salmonellosis ever identified in the United States. The epidemic strain was easily identified because it had a rare antimicrobial resistance pattern and a highly unusual plasmid profile; study of stored isolates showed it had caused clusters of salmonellosis during the previous ten months that may have been related to the same plant, suggesting that the strain had persisted in the plant and repeatedly contaminated milk after pasteurization.
Raw dairy products have been the most common cause of foodborne illness outbreaks in the US, by far, almost every year, for decades -period. You can consider your supplier(s) and your own health, and decide to accept the relatively low risks for yourself, but you've cherry picked a couple of old studies to show what? I can pull review articles and outbreak reports all day long, like these few. How many more large outbreak reports would you like?
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/21/1/14-0447_article
https://sci-hub.st/10.1089/fpd.2009.0302
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/74/wr/mm7427a1.htm
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/65/wr/mm6512a1.htm
This was almost 40 years ago. Estimates are not facts. The dairy plant carried the bacteria. And transferred to the product. It could have been green peppers or lettuce. It had nothing to do with being pasteurized.
Responding to Bioterror Concerns by Increasing Milk Pasteurization Temperature Would Increase Estimated Annual Deaths from Listeriosis
Journal of Food Protection, Vol 77, No. 5, 2014, Pages 696-705.
“Conservative estimates of the effect of pasteurizing all fluid milk at 82 C rather than 72 C are that annual listeriosis deaths from consumption of this milk would increase from 18 to 670, a 38-fold increase”
(page 703) “These changes to the potential for outgrowth have been calculated to increase the risk of death from listeriosis due to consumption of pasteurized fluid milk by approximately 40-fold. Such an increase would have an appreciable public health impact if all milk in the United States were processed according to the increased pasteurization temperature based on the fact that milk is estimated to be responsible for approximately 18 listeriosis deaths per year in the United States."
In all my 35 years being a Nutritionist, not once have I seen a recall on pasteurized milk
This is a red herring to the fact that raw milk easily carries bacteria.
Bacteria can grow faster in pasteurized milk because heat treatment disables the inhibitor properties of fresh milk. Textbook reference: “Pasteurization affects the growth rate of
Spoilage microflora by destroying inhibitor
systems.” (Montville and Matthews, 2005,
Food Microbiology, An Introduction)
You plucked half a sentence, with the word CAN - from within an entire chapter refuting your argument - as in, is a rare possibility when the process fails. Please stop, orgone - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgone
Mungai et al., Emerging Infectious Diseases 2015 (overall epidemiology) - https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/21/1/14-0447_article
Langer et al., Emerging Infectious Diseases 2012 (laws and outbreaks) - https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/18/3/11-1370_article
Oliver et al., Foodborne Pathogens and Disease 2009 (review) - https://foodpoisoningbulletin.com/wp-content/uploads/FoodSafetyHazardsRawMilk.pdf
Huge outbreak from a single inadequately cleaned dairy tanker truck. Over 2500 lab culture-confirmed cases were initially reported, but later calculations put the total illness burden at 160K to 190K illnesses, with at least 12 deaths; https://www.cdc.gov/Mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00000520.htm -- https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/369661 (abstract only)
Weinstein et al., MMWR 2025 (modern large outbreak) - https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/74/wr/mm7427a1.htm
You have to know your farmer and your cow or goat. Anonymity produces a lack of accountability not the fact that the milk is raw, per se. The same is true of raw greens shipped over distance, and why we are shitting our pants because we can’t cope with thanking a farmer or sauteeing dandelion greens. I noticed you are not suggesting lettuce only be sold in sautéed form.
Fact is some people get sick from drinking pasteurized milk
Securing fresh food from fertile soil, challenges to the organic and raw milk movements
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/renewable-agriculture-and-food-systems/article/securing-fresh-food-from-fertile-soil-challenges-to-the-organic-and-raw-milk-movements/18325E375E068A538E07EF4E6F6ABA22
Outbreak of Listeria monocytogenes Infections Associated with Pasteurized Milk from a Local Dairy – Massachusetts, 2007
From CDC's MMWR:
On November 27, 2007, a local health officer in central Massachusetts contacted the Massachusetts Department of Public Health (MDPH) to report listeriosis in a man aged 87 years. Pulsed-field gel electrophoresis (PFGE) performed on the patient's Listeria monocytogenes isolate produced a pattern indistinguishable from that of isolates from three other cases identified in residents of central Massachusetts in June, October, and early November 2007. MDPH, in collaboration with local public health officials, conducted an investigation, which implicated pasteurized, flavored and nonflavored, fluid milk produced by a local dairy (dairy A) as the source of the outbreak. This report summarizes the results of that investigation. In all, five cases were identified, and three deaths occurred. This outbreak illustrates the potential for contamination of fluid milk products after pasteurization and the difficulty in detecting outbreaks of L. monocytogenes infections.
http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/301/8/820.extract
That is exactly what is despicable to me. Finding excuses to say that others will not get sick from raw milk because you do not get sick from drinking it. I could care less about some report about pasturized milk from 19 years ago - it is a selfish argument to try and get eyes off raw milk and those who do get ill from it.
Would you agree that the same goes for va><ines, then? Everyone responds differently, right?
For a fact, a guarantee of perfect safety is an impossible standard for any food to achieve. Yet opponents to raw milk access will often imply that pasteurization ensures safety. But the record shows otherwise. To give one example: Outbreak of Listeria monocytogenes Infections Associated with Pasteurized Milk from a Local Dairy in Massachusetts, 2007 published in JAMA. More pasteurized milk outbreak cases are documented on the Raw Milk Institute website.
Here are the simple facts: some people can drink raw milk and not get sick and some people who drink raw milk and get very sick and end up in the hospital. And if it is a pregnant woman she can lose her child. I wish people would start thinking about others. The fact that they've been drinking raw milk all their lives and they're just fine so that would equal everybody else could drink raw milk and just be fine??? that is not true and I'm asking that people start thinking outside of themselves. I am a degree nutritionist and been studying milk for 35 years including food safety/bacteriology.
In our big cities, people living on the streets are given needles and NarCan to "help them".
The reality is that consuming raw milk is INCREDIBLY safe, and is a choice that people should be allowed to make -- especially given we're handing out needles to addicts to kill themselves. On the other hand, our conventional food system has caused countless both slow... and fast death in consumers. And here are the facts from government data (2011): https://www.realmilk.com/government-data-proves-raw-milk-safe/
Now, you show me your data.
No, drinking raw milk is not safe for everyone. That is the difference. And no I am not going to do the research for you.
Show me where I said drinking ANYthing is safe for everyone. Drinking pasteurized milk has made countless people lactose intolerant over the decades. That makes it pretty unsafe.
Also, why not focus on where you can make the most impact? I assure you, in terms of loss of human life... raw milk isn't where you need to focus your efforts.
there is no way to guarantee the safety of any food
So don't bother with any precautions and standards at all
Standards matter: High standards of the Raw Milk Institute
https://www.rawmilkinstitute.org/listed-farmers/
And, in fact, it's FAR more likely to be safe when purchased locally from a small producer, made in small batches.
All foods can be ‘unsafe’ if poorly prepared. Humans have been hunting, fishing, planting, growing, harvesting, gathering, etc, etc since we were first a species. When we know where our food is coming from AND are reasonably assured that it’s safe to eat, then raw milk & all the other ferments, homemade concoctions and incentives that humans have e always prepared are fine. We live, we adapt, we thrive. If you are reasonably sure a food feels safe to consume & can provide meaningful nutrition, then go for it! 🖖
Absolutely! Also, sauerkraut juice and ACV have been shown to remove glyphosate from the body. Wonder why the trolls in the comments don't worry about all the roundup found in people's bodies -- including those who eat meticulously to avoid it.
Francis Pottenger was my childhood doctor, because I had early childhood food allergies.
I remember the black & white pictures of healthy and unhealthy cats and people as I walked into his office lobby. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_M._Pottenger_Jr.
You must have been raised in Cleveland. The most common food allergies are solved by abstention of cows milk. By no means a total solution...
No, southern California. Dad was USMC.
Most kids with early food allergies get over them by 4-5 years of age, as I did. Cow's milk was one, but goat's milk was fine. Oranges and bananas also gave me diarrhea. Strawberries were anothet thing I couldn't eat.
Goats milk is the closest to mothers milk on offer. Whether your allergies were from the fruits you mention or what was sprayed on them would be a useful approach, as would evaluation of gut health. Simple solution for many is re-inoculating gut with so called friendly bacteria. Kefir, fermented veggies, natto
all excellent dietary sources. Make sauerkraut in fermentation crock, yeild about 25#'s in 3-4 weeks...
Sheep's milk, too. I remember going to the goat farm and chasing the goats. Mom was scared a goat would butt me. I wasn't. I got over my allergies by 5. They were typical early childhood food allergies. I turned 5 in 1963.
Good friend retired and purchased retirement villa. He created a one acre fenced pasture for some sheep. His ram did butt him when he foolishly turned his back. His two little dogs drove the ram away saving him. About a year ago... Now is focusing on fruit orchard with 50 trees...
Nah, just early childhood allergies in Camp Pendelton.
Hurray for Sally and her foundation! My mother had Weston Price’s book, and the photos used to fascinate me.
Graphic depictions that occur in one generation... Debunks the Medical Cartel's genetic
cause of dis-ease proclammations. Now with mRNA there is likely a very real genetic
causation in the pipeline. Some bright light may figure out how to transmutate mRNA
to render it ineffective. Many are working in that direction
Everyone is unique. Dairy and grains are two 'good' foods that have created health problems for many who enjoy them.. When they have been removed from people's diets many health problems cease. In 1976, I went to a nutritional doctor who told me that I needed to eat lots of dairy, because i was pregnant and expecting to nurse. In three months I had a rapidly growing tumor and was told by two doctors that they would give me no guarantees, unless I had it surgically removed. A miracle happened, I said a prayer and a book came into my hands by Dr. Norman W. Walker (author of 10 books on health and nutrition). I followed the information in his book and stopped the dairy. i only ate raw fruit and vegetables and in less than three months, the tumor was gone. I learned excess protein-fat in the dairy caused the tumor to grow. Nothing grows without a fuel; and when I removed the fuel...the tumor deteriorated and was gone.
Suckling another species is a rather bizarre human behavior...
Grains typically means dessicated with Glyphosate hence the "gluten" avoidance
renaissance. The real culprit is most commonly the Glyphosate.
It is true that wheat has been hybridized to increase # yield per acre
that was accomplished by selecting for high gluten content.
Allergies to gluten is rare but severe.
As you point out animal milks are designed to transform a 60# calf and turn it into a 1000# heifer in one year. Last I checked human babies put on ~ 20#'s that first year requiring a very very differnt nutrient profile provided by human mothers milk...
The body wants to heal itself. Unfortunately Medical Doctors by training are bereft of
such knowledge but worse, they want to inject every muscle with a countless # of Quacines... Dr. Walker was pure genius, one of many...
Think about this...mankind lived for thousands of years without the ability to process any food. Grains need to be processed in order to be eaten. Any food that can't be eaten raw was not designed for human consumption. Dangerous Grains by James Braly, M.D. and Ron Hoggan, MA. stated that 200 diseases from arthritis to schizophrenia are caused by eating grains. In 1986, I developed arthritis from eating bread daily. A neighbor who worked at the bakery started bringing me bread. It did not take many months, before I woke up one morning and could not lift my arms above my shoulders and i had excruciating pain in my elbows, too. The only food I had added was bread, so I stopped it. I don't take medication or pain pills.. It took 2-1/2 weeks, before I had no more pain in my elbows and could freely lift my arms up without pain. Several months later, I experimented and added the bread back. It did not take very long before the horrible pain and the constriction in my arms occurred again. After this second time I did not go back to eating bread again.
Pretty sure it was the grains?? Or more likely the glyphosate used to dessicate the grains? Have studied thousands of people with arthritis (degenerative joint dis-ease) Have not seen a direct correlation from grain. Have seen huge issues with those who consume animal foods that is turn often are "fattened" by round up ready and dessicated grains... Celiac dis-ease is true allergy to gluten, it is rare.
There are a number of books on this subject: Grain Brain: David Perlmutter, M.D. Wheat Belly.: William David M.D. Grain Damage: Doug Graham, D.C., Going Against the Grains, Mellissa Diane Smith; Against the Grains: Richard Manning. The Plant Paradox: Stephen Gundry, M.D.
Very much aware, know one of them well... Gundry is a total fraudster babbles about "lectin" gremlins when beans have fueled the population centers of the world. You pretty sure it was the grains and not the Glyphosate??? Norman Walker was way out in front...
Congratulations! It's wonderful that you took charge of your health and recovered. Everyone is indeed unique and not every diet fits all. However, keep in mind that diary is usually a processed food, unless you are using raw milk. Even butter is processed. My thought is the more unprocessed food the better, and stay away from ultra-processed food. It's poison.
Milk is not a processed food. Butter is churned. That is a mechanical action.
Please do not spread misinformation about milk. I am an expert. I have a 5 year degree in Food & Nutrition that included food safety and have been studying milk for 35 years. I spent time on a farm as a child and they milked their own cows. But they boiled it for me and other children. Some people can drink raw milk, and some end up in the hospital. Some pregnant women up losing their babies. The rules are there to make sure that people do not lose their lives or suffer. Those are the facts. It would help if people would think of others.
Lets unpack a few of these ideas.. The human body is self regulating, to a large extent, self healing. The solutions are often simple, compliance rare.
People are very similar, their conditions highly variable. Sucking another species is quite a bizarre behavior despite it normalization. Toxins, whatever their origins are to be avoided. The more "processing" that takes place the more nutritional degradation occurs. Humans require a healthy "biome"to digest whatever they consume.
As you point out many "foods" are actually poisons...
Humans consume their dis-eases then typically report to MD's for treatments.
They test for dis-ease until they find abnormalities to treat.
The cause of health is actually simple... adhering to the tenets? not so much
Thanks for your comment. I agree the less processed the healthier one would be. I try to eat as much raw fruit as possible; steamed spinach; organic eggs from our own chickens. If I can find it, an ounce of raw goat cheese...there are 8 grams of protein in one ounce...and i try to keep my protein down. Excess protein causes health problems, like tumors, heart disease, constipation, obesity. Every food contains some protein...and it all adds up. I try to stay under 30 grams daily. .It isn't easy keeping the protein down. The Protein Myth urging people to eat more protein started in the 1960s. People did not have weight problems like they have today. I read glowing information in Adele Davis's books promoting high protein and went along. with it...and gained a lot of weight. It was not many years later that Adele David died from cancer.. I did not gain from sugar or grains...I gave them up in 1961.
No, it is not true that every food contains protein. I feel bad for you that your life has been inundated with false information about protein, that would be very confusing for you. Adele Davis confused many people.
The amount of protein that you need is unique to you but generally as you get older you need more high quality protein like boiled chicken that you can put in the salads or make into sandwiches, eggs, fish, lean beef, and beef in stew with lots of vegetables. Red kidney beans, provolone cheese, cottage cheese, lentil soup, walnuts, almonds, and whole milk Greek yogurt that you can add to make a smoothie with some fruit. You can have good quality and substantial quantity of good proteins and not be over the calories that you need for fuel and body maintenance (making blood) everyday. I think that's what is maybe confusing for you about protein. I would not say eat fried chicken or masses of barbecue ribs. That's the difference. I hope that helps, I am a degreed nutritionist.
Debbie, I studied the Hunzacuts who lived their full component of 120 years...and they primarily ate garden fresh food and a limited amount of meat on feast days , which could be every 4 or 5 months. The Hunzacuts lived in North Eastern Pakistan in the Himalayas; and were known for their healthy longevity, before the Chinese invaded their country. John Robbin's Healthy at 100 has a chapter about them. Jay M. Hoffman, PhD. visited the Hunzacuts back in the 1960s and wrote an entire book on Hunza. He also wrote about them in The Missing Link in the Medical Curriculum: Food Chemistry in relationship to Body Chemistry. Then there is Dr. Norman Walker who wrote ten books on nutrition and health. He was a living example. He lived well over 100 and was out doing his daily 5 mile walk on a country road, when he was hit by a car and died three months later. I have reasons to believe he was 118 years old. I met people who knew him for years. One was a lady who owned a health food store in Long Beach California in 1934. He wanted to put his Norwalk Juicer in her store. She said that he looked around 70 at the time. Dr. Walker died in 1985...51 years later. I met this lady in 1982, when she was in her eighties. I also met one of his disciples in 1980 who was 50...and he had become a total vegetarian, when he was 15. He looked no more than 30...and at 92 was out biking around the town he lived in. We kept in touch and I spoke to him on the phone a couple years ago. I went over 50 years without meat.. I am now 92 and have no health problems. I am up at 5 AM and out the door at 6:30 AM doing a 90 minute non stop walk covering 4-1/2 miles daily. My energy is better today than when I was in my thirties eating the standard American Diet. I was fat and lethargic. Today, I primarily eat fruit, vegetables and our own organic eggs. I don't touch dairy, grains, nuts or seeds. My daughter wanted me to eat meat. So, I ate some grass-grazed bison for awhile. However, it is very difficult to keep the protein and fat down, when one eats meat. So, I stopped it. I have no physical problems and take no medication. When I was in my teens and during my married life, I weighed 150 pounds. Today, I weigh 105 pounds. The Food Industry financially supports nutrition schools. It provides its food research to the schools...in order to promote its products. I learned this information in 1979, when I needed some credits and was going to take some nutrition courses. I had been into nutrition research for 21 years and took a test to become a nutritional consultant from a university.. I passed with an A+...but put a note at the bottom of the test. " I gave you the answers you required, but they are not necessarily valid." The Food Industry has contributed... in lowering the health of Americans. I did Creator-guided nutritional consultations for 30 years...1982- 2012. I never had a problem where someone told me my advice hurt them. I asked for feedback. Many people told me that only eating their perfect foods was difficult, Many said the same thing, " I would like more variety," However, we are a species just like any other species with a limited number of foods, which are really right for our bodies. Variety may be the spice of life, but the wrong food leads to health issues,
Have studied devoted Fruitarians for several decades. Coastal Australia is the best location on earth for them to thrive. Knew a young woman thriving in HI.
She moved back to Scandanavia. Impossible there.
Too much protein is hardest on kidneys as they are burdened with deamination.
Breaking down nitrogenous wastes (ammonia groups)
Young athletes put on tremendous muscle mass with the strategy, however it also accelerates degenerative process'.
The human body is to some extent forgiving and self regulating. Ethical concerns
are front row and center for dietary considerations.
For nearly all it is not the grains, its the glyphosate...
The 80-10-10 Diet book by Doug Graham, D.C. has a lot of good information. He is into a raw food fruitarian primarily. He also wrote Grain Damage... In regard to grains...any food that would have to be processed would not be a food designed for human consumption. For thousands of years mankind lived on food he could pluck and eat. It says in the Bible that when mankind was turned out of the Garden...now mankind was going to really have to work hard tilling the ground and women would suffer in labor. Grain equals Pain. I know that i really suffered excruciating pain back in 1986, when i started eating bread for awhile...A neighbor worked at a bakery and started bringing me bread. It got to a point, where I couldn't lift my arms and I had horrible pain in my joints. I don't take pain pills and it took 2-1/2 weeks after i stopped eating the bread for the pain to stop.
Know the exquisite details. As you point out much useful info.
Also know personal components. Again Barbara, how would you know whether its the grain (gluten) or the glyphosate? Not disputing the joint pain issue. Have seen zero evidence in decades of comprehensive analysis that
its grain. Back pain degeneration is the LARGEST slice of the health care dollar. That is exactly why the Medical Cartel targeted Chiros.
The list of maladies that does not cause low back pain is much shorter
than the list that does... You are advancing the ideal diet concept.
That is geographically dependent. Please re-read that statement.
Those living on the gold coast of Australia thrive on fruit available like no other location on Earth.
Not possible for those living in inclement climes...
I was so pleased to read this article and learn about Sally. I too have been drinking only raw milk and have found it soothing to my gut. Sadly, in NY you can only buy it from a dairy directly and due to the State regulations and restrictions no one, at least in Western NY Region, wants to deal with the State so they don't carry it or sell it. Sure, if lucky, you can find a local farmer who might sell or trade it but they are taking risks.
If Bobby Kennedy drinks it daily, why can't he just take away all restrictions of raw milk and let the people choose? I ask all to challenge the restrictions at Fed and State level so We the People can MAHA.
Because some people do get sick after drinking raw milk by bacterial infection and end up in the hospital. Some people drink it and do not get sick.
Show us the data. Conventional v raw.
You're just obnoxiously gish-galloping, because everyone's grandmother knew this 100 years ago. How many large outbreak reports would you like?
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/21/1/14-0447_article
https://sci-hub.st/10.1089/fpd.2009.0302
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/74/wr/mm7427a1.htm
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/65/wr/mm6512a1.htm
Ohh, the same CDC that Fauci recently called a hot mess... that one? Hilarious. Whose payroll are you on?
Those papers go back 20 years, and NIH/NAIAD isn't CDC, funny girl. We're done now. Bye.
Have you ever visited someone in the hospital with an e-coli infection? They end up with damaged kidneys. And many just die in the hospital. It is an horrendous infection, with much suffering.
There is a difference between posting a comment and producing a research paper without pay as it costs me time. But, I encourage people to find the data and read up and study their questions, the internet can assist. You wil have other questions too. Find out about bacteriology and dairy.
In response to another comment that you for some reason deleted, you wrote: "Have you ever visited someone in the hospital with an e-coli infection? They end up with damaged kidneys. And many just die in the hospital. It is an horrendous infection, with much suffering."
Per the FDA: "E. coli are mostly harmless bacteria that live in the intestines of people and animals and contribute to intestinal health. However, eating or drinking food or water contaminated with certain types of E. coli can cause mild to severe gastrointestinal illness. Some types of pathogenic (illness-causing) E. coli, such as Shiga toxin-producing E. coli (STEC), can be life-threatening.
Some wildlife, livestock, and humans are occasional carriers of pathogenic E. coli and can contaminate meats and food crops. Contamination is typically spread when feces come into contact with food or water. Human carriers can spread infections when food handlers do not use proper hand washing hygiene after using the restroom."
Can you expand on the type of E. coli these hypothetical people died from in hospital, and how it links with small farms? Because the truth is, it's the large food producers who are the real issue. Larger farms means less quality control.
I found a couple of cases of "likely" linked to small dairy farms. But "likely" is not exactly scientific, is it?
And I encourage people to look anywhere but online, and to look for conflicts of interest in the studies (which we have all learned recently are oftentimes not reported by paid experts).
Most of all, I encourage everyone to remember that my body, my choice is an idea that all civilized societies should respect.
“ .. in NY you can only buy it from a dairy directly ..”
Not true. There are delivery services and collectives. Perhaps not as easy as NJ, PA, CT, MA, VT. They loosened restrictions in the last year or so.
A) Why would you believe he drinks it daily?
B) He injects untested chinese-sourced chemicals and testosterone too, by his own boasting.
Show me your source for what you just said.
Since you asked so nicely, my source is Google - But you can just watch him all over YouTube talking about it.
Here's what a simple browser search revealed: "There is no confirmed evidence that Joe Rogan specifically uses Chinese peptides, but he has publicly endorsed BPC-157, a popular peptide among wellness influencers. This peptide is often discussed in the context of unregulated substances that some people use for various health benefits." And if he wants to use something on his own body, it's his right.
Your Savior - Bobby
That's some AI-agent in your browser.
He's talked about his peptide use and testosterone use on Joe Rogan and a bunch of other podcasts.
The reason is very simple. Although the HHS is 80% by budget of the Fed Gubmint, other ABC agencies are very powerful. The industries that profit off your demise contribute vast amounts of $$$ to Congress. May want to reconsider suckling the cow for longevity...
So how many are okay to be sick and in the hospital by your statement that many do not get sick so what's the okay number
of people to get sick?
Leafy greens top the list as most risky.
No, not overtime.
Totally untrue. The only way leafy greens could be contaminated is with animal wastes.
There is zero inherent "risk" to leafy greens. Drink not the kool aid.
Leafy Greens – Tops List for Most Risky Food CSPI: https://cspinet.org/new/pdf/cspi_top_10_fda.pdf
365 outbreaks involving 13,568 reported cases of illness
Government vs. Raw Milk http://orgonomist.blogspot.com/2010/02/government-vs-raw-milk.html
The WAPF is a wonderfully effective organization. Hats off to its cofounder.
lets unpack this shall we?
The observations of Francis Pottenger, M.D. followed Price, experimenting on cats giving one group raw meat and raw milk to eat and another group cooked meat and pasteurized milk. The group eating cooked meat and pasteurized milk were physically smaller and by the third generation many were unable to reproduce. The observations of Dr. Price, had mostly to do with the human jaw, and dentition. Dentists falsely renounce the observations, with absurb proclammations about some essential vitamins...
Cats are obligate carnivores. Humans are not. We are best advised to eat a plant based diet for many reasons.
Strongest part of the PP argument is the observation the cats fed RAW milk and meat had much better health. Extrapolating this to humans is at best speculative.
No issue with crediting a persons life work, that has nothing to do with whether the original assumtions are correct.
The Amish have always used raw cows milk. They grow organic vegetable and... eat alot of meat.
They do in fact suffer from degenerative arthritis, heart dis-ease, and malignancy.
The pronoucements for the best diet include avoidance strategies hence the emphasis on
"real food". Avoiding processed junk foods is hardly a new consideration. Not sure a "movement" is useful except for bowels.
Organic plant based lifestyles for the win...
Best conference ever. Wonderful (and rare) group of people who live in the nuances.
Good video from Health freedom defense fund
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DbvweRqnaPo/?igsh=MTNmdWljOGF6c2thdA==&igsi=MTNmdWljOGF6c2thdA==