So much this. And Ragan Chastain just covered the research showing a disturbing amount of weight lost is muscle mass. Much like the mRNA shots, I'm sure that is never discussed with the patient, as this is another area of medicine where informed consent isn't seen as crucial.
This is not a good thing!! With all the horrible side effects including blindness, encouraging people to take this stuff is just one more destructive drug compliments of Big pHarma!!
Of course I'm sure Big pHarma has plenty of drugs waiting in the wings to address the gastroparesis, and all the others. Follow the MONEY!!
Glad Sec Kennedy got to underline the very important point that weight loss drugs are not first line treatment. Healthier lifestyles are. As our food system and environment get cleaner, perhaps we'll be able to phase out the need for such drugs.
Healthier lifestyles do not lead to long term weight loss but they do result in being healthy regardless of whether you lose weight or not. The focus needs to be on the lifestyle itself as the goal, not whether it makes you smaller. Focus on how the better food or exercise makes you feel on many levels, that you have more energy, that you have more flexibility, that your mood is improved, that your stomach doesn't feel like crap after eating the fresh fruit rather than the junk food plus you don't crash from the sugar, treat weight loss as a nice possible side effect but not the purpose of the changes, and you can't lose.
"Healthier lifestyles do not lead to long term weight loss"
That's an absolute that itself isn't true. And this idea of "focus on that, not that" is a false dichotomy. Focus on both, because losing excessive weight is achievable, sustainable, and healthier.
If healthy lifestyles lead to weight loss, I'd be thin. Millions of other fat people have discovered this is a lie when they do everything "right" and the promised weight loss does not happen or reverses after 2 years. I have done it four times and I am done believing this weight loss industry lie.
And no, it is not a false dichotomy. If you really believe a healthy lifestyle will by default lead to permanent weight loss, then nothing is lost focusing on the healthy lifestyle itself. Focusing on the healthy lifestyle would lead to weight loss, regardless of the intention. I could choose to eat an apple instead of chips to be thin, or I could make that same choice only because the apple will have a better effect on how I feel than the chips, but the effect on the body would be the same regardless of my reason.
And what a contradiction. One moment you insist healthy lifestyle will always guarantee thinness, but then you insist one must pursue both healthy lifestyle and thinness. I get this argument constantly from weight loss cult true believers and weight loss industry trolls all the time, as ifthey know that a healthy lifestyle does not guarantee permanent large scale weight loss and if us fat people start using actual heath metrics instead of one size fits all "weight loss = health, nothing else matters" metrics and stopped futility trying to become thin and stopped weight cycling, the diet and weight loss industry would collapse.
"One moment you insist healthy lifestyle will always guarantee thinness..."
You actually read what I said, and it was not that. In order to live outside of the hole (a healthy lifestyle), you first have to climb out. The climb has its own methods that reside outside of the healthy (maintenance) lifestyle.
"...but then you insist one must pursue both healthy lifestyle and thinness."
I didn't say "thin". People can be thin and still have too much fat. A healthy lifestyle involves muscle:fat ratio. Higher muscle predicts lower mortality; higher fat predicts higher mortality.
Your language betrays your refusal to understand: "weight loss = health, nothing else matters"; that's nothing but absurd. Nobody says that. You've apparently lost weight and gained it back. The diet worked; the subsequent maintenance/lifestyle failed. Your own experience confirms what I said. You tried because you wanted to reach the goal. You reached the goal and what you did afterward didn't work, because your lifestyle put the weight back on. There are innumerable ways to prevent that from happening, and the most successful ones would necessitate changing a lot of life habits so your entire environment is different and you don't have the same temptations.
Note that in saying all of this, I didn't once say it was easy. Obviously, it can be very difficult. Difficult, but not impossible.
Reading you over again, it seems you are either not comprehending or calling me a liar when you say "my lifestyle put the weight back on". What lifestyle would that be? The one where I eat three dozen donuts as a light snack every day and five large pizzas for dinner? I maintained the healthy lifestyle every single time and every single time the weight loss plateaued then reversed WHILE I MAINTAINED THE HEALTHY LIFESTYLE. In fact, this lasttime, the weight came back on while I ate LESS than I did when it was coming off, because I just had no appetite at all and would get hungry but ignore it because I had other things to do.
Which is exactly why I'm so pissed at the weight loss lie and all that patronizing "oh honey, i know its hard, its not impossible though, you just need to try harder or do it right or not go back to engaging in behaviors you never engaged in to begin with amd arent engaging in now but I'm assuming you did and currently are based entirely on your body size" doesn't change that fact, I did the "right things", I mustered my willpower, i was disciplined, I held the line when it petered out and then reversed, and it failed. Yes, weight loss failed me. I did not fail weight loss. But that doesn't matter to the cult of weight loss, because as in all cults, it doesn't fail ever, only you can fail it, and all other facts can be conveniently ignored or denied.
And what is funny is that when I stopped trying to lose weight, my weight stabilized, I stopped getting fatter, and I had a much easier time controlling my diet because I no longer had cravings to fight. Exactly as the HAES research stated it would. So yeah, I have exactly zero shits to give about weight loss or it's industry or cult or manufactured "science" that starts with its conclusion and works backward always refusing to adjust for confounding variables as actual science would because it has admitted in court it's selling a lie and doing long term studies would ruin its business model of taking credit for short term loss and blaming the customer fir it's long term failure.
And given that you have clearly not read a word I've posted or you ignored what i posted or are calling me a liar, or you would not have said my "lifestyle" must have put the weight on when I made it clear that I maintained the healthy behaviors and still saw the weight return, you are not arguing in good faith. Whether you are part of the weight liss industry in some manner or just one of its zealots, there is no point arguing with someone who just posts pro-industry sound bytes and doesn't acknowledge what I actually wrote.
Missing the point. You said it has to be healthy lifestyle AND weight loss, you MUST have weight loss as a goal, but also that a healthy lifestyle will lead to weight loss. So focusing on the lifestyle without weight loss as the goal would achieve the same result. If I eat an apple, I get the benefits of eating the apple regardless of the purpose. It doesn't matter if I do it to lose weight or not.
And no, the weight loss failed. Long term large scale weight loss always fails. I didn't fail at "maintenance/lifestyle" it kept coming back regardless of what I did, I continued the lifestyle and watched the weight cycle back on with extra, and because the lifestyle failed to produce anything but short term results (just as the non-weight loss industry research has shown for nearly a century) and I had been brainwashed to believe weight loss was the only possible purpose or metric of success, I eventually stopped doing what was not working by that standard. You seem to have missed that part or you are politely calling me a liar.
Perhaps spike progeny syndrome from taking the MRNA ? Kind of strange that that 24-year-old Dallas Cowboy athlete, in his prime, suddenly died recently with no mentioned cause of death. This does make one wonder about all these sudden deaths and collapsing events, particularly in younger, more healthy people, including those taking unsafe dietary drugs like ozempic
All of a sudden they're claiming " apparent suicide"
However, suicide has not been recognized as a side effect by vaccine manufacturers, there are a continuing number of case reports describe instances of new onset psychiatric symptoms, including depression and suicidal ideation and attempts following covid-19 vaccination.
Glad to see others here feel the same as I do: WTF is Kennedy doing supporting these moxious drugs at all! They are dangerous and massively expensive even with the discounted pricing. That money should be getting used for organic foods and supplements. It should used for working with holistic practitioners who can help guide a person thru major dietary changes in their life.
And why isn't Kennedy calling for meaningful safety studies on these drugs? Has been that coopted already? Or was he always a fence sitter that should have always been questoned?
Yes, according to Ragen Chastains stack, these glp1 drugs have the same lack of long term data for weight loss dosing as the mRNA shots, which is zilch.
I worry about what big pharma might be getting in exchange for these concessions. My fear is that Trump appointed RFK as HHS secretary solely to get leverage over big pharma; who them appeases him in order to have RFK back off, and Trump gets to look like a hero for lowering drug prices. I hope RFK exposes the 'science' behind these drugs as a lot of bull.
I agree with most of the comments already made, this is NOT good news. This deals with the problem of drug pricing, and Big Pharma exploitation of the USA market. Incidentally, here in the UK we are being told that we are going to have to pay higher prices for drugs! And like your Medicare and Medicaid, the NHS is virtually bankrupt already!
The more serious problem is that the cheaper the drug, the more people will have access to it - and all the patient harm they will subject themselves to. The fact that the USA spends more on pharmaceutical drugs and vaccines, and has the highest rates of chronic disease, are not unconnected!
But the third serious problem is that the greater availability of drugs, and the alleged benefits of drug taking, detracts from the real solutions to chronic disease - diet, exercise, de-stressing, and equally important, staying clear of pharma drugs.
The MAHA/Kennedy strategy has one serious defect; it still believes that pharma drugs and vaccines are important in making us/keeping us healthy. The belief is that all that needs to be done is to resurrect honest medical science, and an independent drug regulatory system, and all will be well. Perhaps Big Pharma is too powerful to question to this degree, all at once. But the whole medical system, based on pharmaceutical drugs, is at the very root of ill-health and chronic disease.
And until we develop a medical system that actually compares the relative merits of natural medical therapies, like homeopathy, and conventional medicine, we will never be absolutely sure of the best way forward. It's going to be a long, harm struggle - involving more than 'clipping the wings' of the pharmaceutical medical establishment.
What is this? Now the President assembles a meeting of drug pushers, enablers, and addicts - one of whom collapses - to tell us that we are so lucky to have even cheaper drugs.
What.... the .... heck??? Have they put the vulcan mind meld on RFK or what? I am a huge fan but this just doesn't sound right. Bobby should know better. Obesity is not good, but those drugs are JUST PLAIN DANGEROUS. He must know that!
I hope RFK genuinely knows better. Maybe it's simply that he exists in a political ecosystem and has to go along with Trump some. This is probably important to Trump, to look like a hero for getting the prices lower. I wouldn't say it's exactly a public health disaster to lower these prices. So maybe RFK is like "I'll do the press conference, slip in a subtle dig against the drug companies by emphasizing lifestyle choices, then I'll resume working on important things." So I'd like to think.
These weight loss medications are designed to be taken again and again and again in order for the weight loss to be sustained. What a great way to get 50% of the population to pay the government an extra $300 a month. Next up: weight loss police.
That is what scares me. I am on a regular workout schedule, I am steadily improving my diet quality (just started a kimchi regimen), and I know for a fact from experience it will not keep me thin even if I lose weight initially (lost weight 4 times, gained back more than I lost every time regardless of my efforts). I also know it will make me healthy regardless of where my weight ends up, which is why i am doing it and will maintain it this time, as i stopped before when the weight loss plateaued and reversed). But I'm sure the weight loss/pharma industry will be happy to utilize the fat bigots the same way they utilized vax zealots against mRNA refuses to try and force and mandate these poisons on all of us whose weight is offensive to their eyes. Gee, maybe they can even tie it to our employment, take your regular poison shot weekly or lose your job. God, I kid but I could see them pulling that.
Muscle burns more calories than fat, even at rest. Muscle is essential for movement, strength, and metabolism. Fat is stored energy and helps insulate the body.
I agree, muscle is crucial. I lost weight four times, but I lost it different ways--first time was straight muscle building with no eating at any deficit, and I felt great. When I did it the second time, it was the traditional "eat less, move more", I was stocking shelves at my job and reducing my Cals to 1700, lost a ton then plateaued, so I kept reducing until my Cals were at 700 a day. Stayed that way for a year, couldn't budge that number, and the entire time I kept waiting and waiting to feel better like I did before. It never happened.
I also lost all my weight first from my core the first time, but from my arms and legs that se and time. Night and day. Of course, it came back both times, but I now know I should have kept up the muscle exercises regardless of that, even if it wasn't keeping the weight off.
Now I realize I didn't feel better because of losing weight, it was the increased muscle mass that did it. That muscle mass, I think, stabilizes and promotes other body systems, it's like a domino effect, the benefits of the muscle stimulates another thing that improves something else and suddenly you're feeling much better and inclined to think it was the fat loss but it was that muscle the whole time! And you get that benefit regardless of whether it reduces your weight.
Another benefit I've gotten since restarted muscle building, I was drinking alcohol fairly often and even craving having a drink, but after a few weeks of this I realized I hadn't wanted a drink for a while. I'll still have a drink now and then, but I'm increasingly less inclined to. And since starting kimchi pills, alcohol makes me slightly sick now.
Muscle is the best! And there is nothing on this planet that will induce me to take anything that might impact my muscle mass negatively.
The 700 cal is so low, the body responds as if starving, so it changes metabolism to retain stored calories (fat). It actually may burn muscle protein to stay alive. So that may explain your experience with arms and legs vs core. Usually 1500 cal/day is starvation line for working people where body is holding onto fat resources.
I know that now and I wish I'd never done it, but at the time I was being told by weight loss gurus and weight loss true believers that if I just kept my discipline and kept dropping the calories for long enough and just kept holding the line, the plateau would break and permanent thinness would be mine.
What's worse is after that year or so, I looked over my food log trying to figure out where I could cut it down to 500 calories and suddenly had this epiphany was over me as if a guardian angel had waved a hand, that what I was doing what far more dangerous than anything the weight loss industry told me about being fat and I need to stop. And of course, going back to a normal diet packed it all back on plus some, another thing I did not want to believe at the time, I was told you just have to lose the weight then you can eat a normal diet and easily maintain it.
Sorry, RFK. Love you but this is not a good thing.
Also, until you show me the evidence that being fat is the #1 cause of all illness that is not conducted by an 80 bil a year industry with a robust history of dishonesty, that also adjusts for the well-known confounding variables of stigma stress, weight cycling and medical inequality (ie: fat people are prescribed diets for things thin people are provided actual treatment for, then when fat people end up with worsened conditions they disingenuously but conveniently blame that on "obesity" rather than the real cause "denial of prompt care due to fat bigotry"), I'm going to keep calling that bullshit too. Seriously, the same sources that lied to us about everything else including statins, cholesterol, blood pressure, and vaccines and you think they're telling the truth about obesity?
See Ragen Chastain's substack, she lays it out more clearly than I ever could.
You could make these poisons free and I still wouldn't touch them. I'm fine focusing on improving my diet quality and getting exercise, and if I stay fat, that's just how it's going to be. Which is how it is, I've lost weight 4 times and it comes back with friends every time no matter what I do. And with the disturbing evidence that in weight loss attempts, including glp1 loss, 20 to 50 percent of lost weight is lean muscle mass that doesn't come back, I am even less interested in basting myself with magic juices from the same industry that brought us the glory if the mRNA vaccines.
Seriously, RFK, you'd do better to focus on making our food actual food again. Has it occurred to no one that the cause of someone being higher weight and having a health problem might not be the ever-popular assumption that the fat person's assumed moral failing (presumed automatically whileknowing exactly nothing abouf the person) led to being fat that led to a health issue, but rather that the being fat and the health issue might both be symptomatic of something else? Likely the fact that it's hard to avoid fake food even when you are actively trying to, and the changes they've made to our food supply might affect different physiologically in different ways? I literally gained back my weight plus 30lb the last time while eating almost nothing at all, contrary to popular opinion, and I continue to have low appetite despite my weight (another reason I'm not touching anything that's an appetite suppressant even if it was actually safe).
I know, treating it as a moral failing is far more entertaining and self-satisfying, and no one wants to believe that when they oinked at fat people all these years they weren't heroes, just bullies.
Another compromise position. I have never seen a drug intervention that didn't have a health risk involved. GLP1 is no different. Only 1/3 of the weight loss is from reduction of stored fat, the other 2/3 is from depletion of muscle mass. NG. Keto Diet, Life Style changes and eliminating nutrient deficiencies are the best way to go. They are achieving the goal of bring down the cost of RX drugs, and getting manufacturing of the drugs back into the USA. China and India do not follow GMP's and contamination of generics is unacceptable. Mr. Findlay is probably stressed out because their profitability is being reduced.
I just read about the muscle mass thing on Ragen Chastain's substack and it scares the hell out of me. It almost makes me think they are trying to cull fat people and produce health problems (which guaranteed they will blame on weight rather than the drug's effects).
Though I'd say just encourage exercise and healthy food for its own sake, rather than with weight loss as the goal. A lot of people, including me, have given up on healthy lifestyles in the past when they repeatedly and consistently fail to produce long term weight loss (I've lost weight 4 time, got more back every time no matter what I did after a long plateau usually). I'm starting again on a healthy lifestyle attempt, but this time I think I will be able to keep it going because I no longer hold up weight loss a either the goal or the metric of success.
These weight loss medication’s are designed to need to be taken again and again and again. What a great way to get 50% of the United States to pay an extra $340 a month to the government.
If people want to lose weight right, it is far less expensive to eat a lot of the right unprocessed food and exercise daily..I aim to eat 10 servings daily OR MORE of uncooked food...a serving is 4 oz. If you eat enough bulk and fiber you won't have a craving for sweets. I went through years of my early life weighing 150 pounds at 5'3" and today I am 110 pounds. I eat quite a bit more than I ever ate before...and have had great results. I do an hour of fast walking daily. Take a tip from Hippocrates: the Father of Medicine. He prescribed natural foods and exercise.
I can't understand why anyone would be celebrating this development.
I agree, I consider this a complete ass of shit.
I'm not so sure this is "good news", as these drugs come with some pretty serious side effects.
So much this. And Ragan Chastain just covered the research showing a disturbing amount of weight lost is muscle mass. Much like the mRNA shots, I'm sure that is never discussed with the patient, as this is another area of medicine where informed consent isn't seen as crucial.
Yes, and Kennedy spoke at length about them during his presidential run.
This is not a good thing!! With all the horrible side effects including blindness, encouraging people to take this stuff is just one more destructive drug compliments of Big pHarma!!
Of course I'm sure Big pHarma has plenty of drugs waiting in the wings to address the gastroparesis, and all the others. Follow the MONEY!!
Omg, I completely forgot about the blindness! Even my mom heard about that, and she's not always in the loop.
Glad Sec Kennedy got to underline the very important point that weight loss drugs are not first line treatment. Healthier lifestyles are. As our food system and environment get cleaner, perhaps we'll be able to phase out the need for such drugs.
Healthier lifestyles do not lead to long term weight loss but they do result in being healthy regardless of whether you lose weight or not. The focus needs to be on the lifestyle itself as the goal, not whether it makes you smaller. Focus on how the better food or exercise makes you feel on many levels, that you have more energy, that you have more flexibility, that your mood is improved, that your stomach doesn't feel like crap after eating the fresh fruit rather than the junk food plus you don't crash from the sugar, treat weight loss as a nice possible side effect but not the purpose of the changes, and you can't lose.
Source: Ragan Chastains substack.
Good points!
"Healthier lifestyles do not lead to long term weight loss"
That's an absolute that itself isn't true. And this idea of "focus on that, not that" is a false dichotomy. Focus on both, because losing excessive weight is achievable, sustainable, and healthier.
If healthy lifestyles lead to weight loss, I'd be thin. Millions of other fat people have discovered this is a lie when they do everything "right" and the promised weight loss does not happen or reverses after 2 years. I have done it four times and I am done believing this weight loss industry lie.
And no, it is not a false dichotomy. If you really believe a healthy lifestyle will by default lead to permanent weight loss, then nothing is lost focusing on the healthy lifestyle itself. Focusing on the healthy lifestyle would lead to weight loss, regardless of the intention. I could choose to eat an apple instead of chips to be thin, or I could make that same choice only because the apple will have a better effect on how I feel than the chips, but the effect on the body would be the same regardless of my reason.
And what a contradiction. One moment you insist healthy lifestyle will always guarantee thinness, but then you insist one must pursue both healthy lifestyle and thinness. I get this argument constantly from weight loss cult true believers and weight loss industry trolls all the time, as ifthey know that a healthy lifestyle does not guarantee permanent large scale weight loss and if us fat people start using actual heath metrics instead of one size fits all "weight loss = health, nothing else matters" metrics and stopped futility trying to become thin and stopped weight cycling, the diet and weight loss industry would collapse.
You're putting words into my mouth:
"One moment you insist healthy lifestyle will always guarantee thinness..."
You actually read what I said, and it was not that. In order to live outside of the hole (a healthy lifestyle), you first have to climb out. The climb has its own methods that reside outside of the healthy (maintenance) lifestyle.
"...but then you insist one must pursue both healthy lifestyle and thinness."
I didn't say "thin". People can be thin and still have too much fat. A healthy lifestyle involves muscle:fat ratio. Higher muscle predicts lower mortality; higher fat predicts higher mortality.
Your language betrays your refusal to understand: "weight loss = health, nothing else matters"; that's nothing but absurd. Nobody says that. You've apparently lost weight and gained it back. The diet worked; the subsequent maintenance/lifestyle failed. Your own experience confirms what I said. You tried because you wanted to reach the goal. You reached the goal and what you did afterward didn't work, because your lifestyle put the weight back on. There are innumerable ways to prevent that from happening, and the most successful ones would necessitate changing a lot of life habits so your entire environment is different and you don't have the same temptations.
Note that in saying all of this, I didn't once say it was easy. Obviously, it can be very difficult. Difficult, but not impossible.
Reading you over again, it seems you are either not comprehending or calling me a liar when you say "my lifestyle put the weight back on". What lifestyle would that be? The one where I eat three dozen donuts as a light snack every day and five large pizzas for dinner? I maintained the healthy lifestyle every single time and every single time the weight loss plateaued then reversed WHILE I MAINTAINED THE HEALTHY LIFESTYLE. In fact, this lasttime, the weight came back on while I ate LESS than I did when it was coming off, because I just had no appetite at all and would get hungry but ignore it because I had other things to do.
Which is exactly why I'm so pissed at the weight loss lie and all that patronizing "oh honey, i know its hard, its not impossible though, you just need to try harder or do it right or not go back to engaging in behaviors you never engaged in to begin with amd arent engaging in now but I'm assuming you did and currently are based entirely on your body size" doesn't change that fact, I did the "right things", I mustered my willpower, i was disciplined, I held the line when it petered out and then reversed, and it failed. Yes, weight loss failed me. I did not fail weight loss. But that doesn't matter to the cult of weight loss, because as in all cults, it doesn't fail ever, only you can fail it, and all other facts can be conveniently ignored or denied.
And what is funny is that when I stopped trying to lose weight, my weight stabilized, I stopped getting fatter, and I had a much easier time controlling my diet because I no longer had cravings to fight. Exactly as the HAES research stated it would. So yeah, I have exactly zero shits to give about weight loss or it's industry or cult or manufactured "science" that starts with its conclusion and works backward always refusing to adjust for confounding variables as actual science would because it has admitted in court it's selling a lie and doing long term studies would ruin its business model of taking credit for short term loss and blaming the customer fir it's long term failure.
And given that you have clearly not read a word I've posted or you ignored what i posted or are calling me a liar, or you would not have said my "lifestyle" must have put the weight on when I made it clear that I maintained the healthy behaviors and still saw the weight return, you are not arguing in good faith. Whether you are part of the weight liss industry in some manner or just one of its zealots, there is no point arguing with someone who just posts pro-industry sound bytes and doesn't acknowledge what I actually wrote.
Missing the point. You said it has to be healthy lifestyle AND weight loss, you MUST have weight loss as a goal, but also that a healthy lifestyle will lead to weight loss. So focusing on the lifestyle without weight loss as the goal would achieve the same result. If I eat an apple, I get the benefits of eating the apple regardless of the purpose. It doesn't matter if I do it to lose weight or not.
And no, the weight loss failed. Long term large scale weight loss always fails. I didn't fail at "maintenance/lifestyle" it kept coming back regardless of what I did, I continued the lifestyle and watched the weight cycle back on with extra, and because the lifestyle failed to produce anything but short term results (just as the non-weight loss industry research has shown for nearly a century) and I had been brainwashed to believe weight loss was the only possible purpose or metric of success, I eventually stopped doing what was not working by that standard. You seem to have missed that part or you are politely calling me a liar.
Findlay was probably taking one of his company’s weight loss drugs. 😀
Perhaps spike progeny syndrome from taking the MRNA ? Kind of strange that that 24-year-old Dallas Cowboy athlete, in his prime, suddenly died recently with no mentioned cause of death. This does make one wonder about all these sudden deaths and collapsing events, particularly in younger, more healthy people, including those taking unsafe dietary drugs like ozempic
What was the athlete's name? Was he actively playing for the team?
lol, I came to the comment section to say exactly that.
All of a sudden they're claiming " apparent suicide"
However, suicide has not been recognized as a side effect by vaccine manufacturers, there are a continuing number of case reports describe instances of new onset psychiatric symptoms, including depression and suicidal ideation and attempts following covid-19 vaccination.
Glad to see others here feel the same as I do: WTF is Kennedy doing supporting these moxious drugs at all! They are dangerous and massively expensive even with the discounted pricing. That money should be getting used for organic foods and supplements. It should used for working with holistic practitioners who can help guide a person thru major dietary changes in their life.
And why isn't Kennedy calling for meaningful safety studies on these drugs? Has been that coopted already? Or was he always a fence sitter that should have always been questoned?
Seriously, I'm like, is it April fool's day or what. I can't believe I just read all this.
Yes, according to Ragen Chastains stack, these glp1 drugs have the same lack of long term data for weight loss dosing as the mRNA shots, which is zilch.
I worry about what big pharma might be getting in exchange for these concessions. My fear is that Trump appointed RFK as HHS secretary solely to get leverage over big pharma; who them appeases him in order to have RFK back off, and Trump gets to look like a hero for lowering drug prices. I hope RFK exposes the 'science' behind these drugs as a lot of bull.
Weight loss drugs are for those who know exactly nothing about health or its origins regardless
of endorsements. Those who have no clue are free to "save" money.
There is exactly no path to health through Big P drugs.
I don’t trust any drugs even if they were given to me for free.
I agree with most of the comments already made, this is NOT good news. This deals with the problem of drug pricing, and Big Pharma exploitation of the USA market. Incidentally, here in the UK we are being told that we are going to have to pay higher prices for drugs! And like your Medicare and Medicaid, the NHS is virtually bankrupt already!
The more serious problem is that the cheaper the drug, the more people will have access to it - and all the patient harm they will subject themselves to. The fact that the USA spends more on pharmaceutical drugs and vaccines, and has the highest rates of chronic disease, are not unconnected!
But the third serious problem is that the greater availability of drugs, and the alleged benefits of drug taking, detracts from the real solutions to chronic disease - diet, exercise, de-stressing, and equally important, staying clear of pharma drugs.
The MAHA/Kennedy strategy has one serious defect; it still believes that pharma drugs and vaccines are important in making us/keeping us healthy. The belief is that all that needs to be done is to resurrect honest medical science, and an independent drug regulatory system, and all will be well. Perhaps Big Pharma is too powerful to question to this degree, all at once. But the whole medical system, based on pharmaceutical drugs, is at the very root of ill-health and chronic disease.
And until we develop a medical system that actually compares the relative merits of natural medical therapies, like homeopathy, and conventional medicine, we will never be absolutely sure of the best way forward. It's going to be a long, harm struggle - involving more than 'clipping the wings' of the pharmaceutical medical establishment.
What is this? Now the President assembles a meeting of drug pushers, enablers, and addicts - one of whom collapses - to tell us that we are so lucky to have even cheaper drugs.
What.... the .... heck??? Have they put the vulcan mind meld on RFK or what? I am a huge fan but this just doesn't sound right. Bobby should know better. Obesity is not good, but those drugs are JUST PLAIN DANGEROUS. He must know that!
I hope RFK genuinely knows better. Maybe it's simply that he exists in a political ecosystem and has to go along with Trump some. This is probably important to Trump, to look like a hero for getting the prices lower. I wouldn't say it's exactly a public health disaster to lower these prices. So maybe RFK is like "I'll do the press conference, slip in a subtle dig against the drug companies by emphasizing lifestyle choices, then I'll resume working on important things." So I'd like to think.
These weight loss medications are designed to be taken again and again and again in order for the weight loss to be sustained. What a great way to get 50% of the population to pay the government an extra $300 a month. Next up: weight loss police.
That is what scares me. I am on a regular workout schedule, I am steadily improving my diet quality (just started a kimchi regimen), and I know for a fact from experience it will not keep me thin even if I lose weight initially (lost weight 4 times, gained back more than I lost every time regardless of my efforts). I also know it will make me healthy regardless of where my weight ends up, which is why i am doing it and will maintain it this time, as i stopped before when the weight loss plateaued and reversed). But I'm sure the weight loss/pharma industry will be happy to utilize the fat bigots the same way they utilized vax zealots against mRNA refuses to try and force and mandate these poisons on all of us whose weight is offensive to their eyes. Gee, maybe they can even tie it to our employment, take your regular poison shot weekly or lose your job. God, I kid but I could see them pulling that.
Muscle burns more calories than fat, even at rest. Muscle is essential for movement, strength, and metabolism. Fat is stored energy and helps insulate the body.
I agree, muscle is crucial. I lost weight four times, but I lost it different ways--first time was straight muscle building with no eating at any deficit, and I felt great. When I did it the second time, it was the traditional "eat less, move more", I was stocking shelves at my job and reducing my Cals to 1700, lost a ton then plateaued, so I kept reducing until my Cals were at 700 a day. Stayed that way for a year, couldn't budge that number, and the entire time I kept waiting and waiting to feel better like I did before. It never happened.
I also lost all my weight first from my core the first time, but from my arms and legs that se and time. Night and day. Of course, it came back both times, but I now know I should have kept up the muscle exercises regardless of that, even if it wasn't keeping the weight off.
Now I realize I didn't feel better because of losing weight, it was the increased muscle mass that did it. That muscle mass, I think, stabilizes and promotes other body systems, it's like a domino effect, the benefits of the muscle stimulates another thing that improves something else and suddenly you're feeling much better and inclined to think it was the fat loss but it was that muscle the whole time! And you get that benefit regardless of whether it reduces your weight.
Another benefit I've gotten since restarted muscle building, I was drinking alcohol fairly often and even craving having a drink, but after a few weeks of this I realized I hadn't wanted a drink for a while. I'll still have a drink now and then, but I'm increasingly less inclined to. And since starting kimchi pills, alcohol makes me slightly sick now.
Muscle is the best! And there is nothing on this planet that will induce me to take anything that might impact my muscle mass negatively.
The 700 cal is so low, the body responds as if starving, so it changes metabolism to retain stored calories (fat). It actually may burn muscle protein to stay alive. So that may explain your experience with arms and legs vs core. Usually 1500 cal/day is starvation line for working people where body is holding onto fat resources.
I know that now and I wish I'd never done it, but at the time I was being told by weight loss gurus and weight loss true believers that if I just kept my discipline and kept dropping the calories for long enough and just kept holding the line, the plateau would break and permanent thinness would be mine.
What's worse is after that year or so, I looked over my food log trying to figure out where I could cut it down to 500 calories and suddenly had this epiphany was over me as if a guardian angel had waved a hand, that what I was doing what far more dangerous than anything the weight loss industry told me about being fat and I need to stop. And of course, going back to a normal diet packed it all back on plus some, another thing I did not want to believe at the time, I was told you just have to lose the weight then you can eat a normal diet and easily maintain it.
I am very happy I never pushed it to that 500.
Sorry, RFK. Love you but this is not a good thing.
Also, until you show me the evidence that being fat is the #1 cause of all illness that is not conducted by an 80 bil a year industry with a robust history of dishonesty, that also adjusts for the well-known confounding variables of stigma stress, weight cycling and medical inequality (ie: fat people are prescribed diets for things thin people are provided actual treatment for, then when fat people end up with worsened conditions they disingenuously but conveniently blame that on "obesity" rather than the real cause "denial of prompt care due to fat bigotry"), I'm going to keep calling that bullshit too. Seriously, the same sources that lied to us about everything else including statins, cholesterol, blood pressure, and vaccines and you think they're telling the truth about obesity?
See Ragen Chastain's substack, she lays it out more clearly than I ever could.
You could make these poisons free and I still wouldn't touch them. I'm fine focusing on improving my diet quality and getting exercise, and if I stay fat, that's just how it's going to be. Which is how it is, I've lost weight 4 times and it comes back with friends every time no matter what I do. And with the disturbing evidence that in weight loss attempts, including glp1 loss, 20 to 50 percent of lost weight is lean muscle mass that doesn't come back, I am even less interested in basting myself with magic juices from the same industry that brought us the glory if the mRNA vaccines.
Seriously, RFK, you'd do better to focus on making our food actual food again. Has it occurred to no one that the cause of someone being higher weight and having a health problem might not be the ever-popular assumption that the fat person's assumed moral failing (presumed automatically whileknowing exactly nothing abouf the person) led to being fat that led to a health issue, but rather that the being fat and the health issue might both be symptomatic of something else? Likely the fact that it's hard to avoid fake food even when you are actively trying to, and the changes they've made to our food supply might affect different physiologically in different ways? I literally gained back my weight plus 30lb the last time while eating almost nothing at all, contrary to popular opinion, and I continue to have low appetite despite my weight (another reason I'm not touching anything that's an appetite suppressant even if it was actually safe).
I know, treating it as a moral failing is far more entertaining and self-satisfying, and no one wants to believe that when they oinked at fat people all these years they weren't heroes, just bullies.
Another compromise position. I have never seen a drug intervention that didn't have a health risk involved. GLP1 is no different. Only 1/3 of the weight loss is from reduction of stored fat, the other 2/3 is from depletion of muscle mass. NG. Keto Diet, Life Style changes and eliminating nutrient deficiencies are the best way to go. They are achieving the goal of bring down the cost of RX drugs, and getting manufacturing of the drugs back into the USA. China and India do not follow GMP's and contamination of generics is unacceptable. Mr. Findlay is probably stressed out because their profitability is being reduced.
I just read about the muscle mass thing on Ragen Chastain's substack and it scares the hell out of me. It almost makes me think they are trying to cull fat people and produce health problems (which guaranteed they will blame on weight rather than the drug's effects).
Though I'd say just encourage exercise and healthy food for its own sake, rather than with weight loss as the goal. A lot of people, including me, have given up on healthy lifestyles in the past when they repeatedly and consistently fail to produce long term weight loss (I've lost weight 4 time, got more back every time no matter what I did after a long plateau usually). I'm starting again on a healthy lifestyle attempt, but this time I think I will be able to keep it going because I no longer hold up weight loss a either the goal or the metric of success.
These weight loss medication’s are designed to need to be taken again and again and again. What a great way to get 50% of the United States to pay an extra $340 a month to the government.
If people want to lose weight right, it is far less expensive to eat a lot of the right unprocessed food and exercise daily..I aim to eat 10 servings daily OR MORE of uncooked food...a serving is 4 oz. If you eat enough bulk and fiber you won't have a craving for sweets. I went through years of my early life weighing 150 pounds at 5'3" and today I am 110 pounds. I eat quite a bit more than I ever ate before...and have had great results. I do an hour of fast walking daily. Take a tip from Hippocrates: the Father of Medicine. He prescribed natural foods and exercise.